Amber:
Welcome to Episode 11 of the Gem Finders Podcast. I'm Amber.

Shaun:
I am Shaun.

Amber:
Today we are going to do a little bit of a different topic and a little bit of a different style, and we are going to talk about our working relationship. Because it has a lot of pros and cons—working with your significant other.

Shaun:
Yeah, I think it's a... I mean in a way, I think it's a unique dynamic. I think that it's a lot more common now than it had been in the last decade or so. I think that, you know, with the internet and all of that fun stuff—technology in general—I think that a lot more couples are kind of exploring the opportunity to work together. But it is—it's interesting.

Amber:
And we have been exploring the opportunity to work together for like 11 years now.

Shaun:
Yeah, I mean we've been together over 11 years now.

Amber:
And very early on in our relationship, we had discussed working together and collaborating and trying to use our strengths to create something together. That has looked very differently throughout the years, and we've had—you know—small moments of success, but I feel like even more failures.

Shaun:
Oh, absolutely. I mean there's no doubt about that. I mean like I said, we've been together 11 years. I mean, pretty much from the very beginning, I was helping you with your PR stuff—doing like client outreach and stuff like that. So yeah, I mean over a decade now. And I mean, this is really the first thing that has like really been successful. So there's been a lot of failures.

Amber:
And when we say "this," we're talking about the vintage reselling business. I think this is the first business that we have been able to sustain, because I do think we had other good ideas in the past, but we didn't necessarily have the time or the money or the motivation to continue showing up to kind of give them the chance to succeed. Whereas I feel like this—we kind of approached differently. And we must be doing something right because for—what’s it—it’s been at least like a year and a half now it’s supported both of us completely.

Amber:
Yeah, closer to two years. Yeah, closer to two years that this has been our full-time job for both of us. So I feel like we’re still learning and we’re still trying to figure out how to work together. We definitely still have our moments. But all in all, it's pretty much working. 

Shaun:
I mean—and also to be completely transparent—you said that, you know, we didn't maybe have the time or the money or the motivation. I also don’t know that we had the stability within our relationship to sustain the other projects that we've tried.

Amber:
Yeah, that’s very true. And I also think that, one, how we approached this business was different, but two, it was also—it kind of unfolded at the same time as us doing a lot of couples therapy. So I really think that that contributed a lot to working through our issues, improving our communication, and being able to get to the point where we could not only work together—but work together in a way where it was successful.

Shaun:
Yeah, I absolutely think that the timing of it played a big factor in the success that we've had.

Amber:
So we're gonna start with some pros and cons, and then we'll just kind of see where the discussion takes us.

Shaun:
We're just trying to let this flow naturally and organically. 

Amber:
Which is so hard for me, because I am not a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants person. I like an outline. I like a plan. I like to know what I’m going to say. And you are not like that.

Shaun:
And this is one of the struggles of working with our significant others—in this specific scenario.

Amber:
Yes—that we have very different approaches to things and very different ways that we kind of work. And trying to find the balance, and trying to find a way for each other’s strengths to shine while leaving space for our weaknesses—I feel like is hard.

Shaun:
It is hard, but I also think that—this can be looked at as a pro or a con.

Amber:
I think most of them can be a pro or con, honestly.

Shaun:
Yeah, I mean, I’m sure a lot of them probably can be. But I think that, you know, having two different perspectives and outlooks on things—I think that can be really helpful in a lot of ways. Because I think that we can both reel each other in when we’re going too far in one direction and kind of bring us both back to meet more in the middle.

Amber:
Yeah. I think that one of the best things we have going for us is that we are such different people on so many different levels. Like, we are very different—we really don’t have a lot of similarities. 

Shaun:
Yeah, I don’t—I don’t know how we’ve stayed together this long.

Amber:
Because we don’t share a lot of interests. We don’t share a lot of hobbies. We really...

Shaun:
Most of the things that we do share now are things that I don’t think you were very into that I kind of got you into. Like, a lot of the shows we watch and—you know—that kind of stuff.

Amber:
Give me some more specifics.

Shaun:
I don’t know, like all of the superhero stuff. That wasn’t really your thing.

Amber:
I watched the Marvel movies before you came into my life.

Shaun:
Watching them and actually, like, enjoying them and being into them are two very different things.

Amber:
Maybe. Other than watching TV shows and running a business together, our lives don’t overlap a lot.

Shaun:
No, they really don’t.

Amber:
But it works for us. We spend enough time together.

Shaun:
Yeah. I think now—not even just now, because like you said, we have been trying to work together pretty much since we got together. So maybe that does play a part in it, because we have always spent so much time with each other—you know, trying to build a business or just make money in general. Not necessarily have to build a business, but...

Amber:
Being creative together.

Shaun:
Yeah, sure. Being creative. That—it doesn’t feel as necessary to have such similar interests and have to do all of that stuff together.

Amber:
Yeah.

Shaun:
And sometimes—I need a break from you.

Amber:
And I also—like, there’s no other hobbies I would want to pick up that I want to do more than the business. Like, I kind of always want to be working on what we’re creating, and I don’t know—anything else feels like it takes away from that. And I do feel like the types of projects that we have worked on together throughout the years—nothing was like strictly business-related. Like we were creating content and, you know, writing and making videos about experiences and going places and filming at different locations. So I feel like we’ve gotten to experience a lot of different things together within running different businesses.

Shaun:
Yeah, a lot of the content was primarily based on that. Like the He Said, She Said series that we just watched a vlog about—that I hadn’t seen probably since we filmed it.

Amber:
Seven years ago. We made a vlog about working together as a couple, and we watched that to see how far we’ve come. And surprisingly, I still feel like we have a lot of the same strengths and experience a lot of the same challenges as we did seven years ago when we filmed that.

Shaun:
If you’re one of the 34 people that watched that—thank you for being an OG.

Amber:
I don’t know if we have any of those OGs with us anymore, but you never know.

But overall, I really do think that working together has strengthened our relationship in a way that a lot of other things can’t do.

Shaun:
It’s a very different experience, because there’s so many different things that you have to balance. It’s really hard to find that line between, you know, the personal relationship and the business relationship. I think that it takes a lot of skill and a lot of practice to find ways to balance that and to manage that.

It still does carry over into—you know—sometimes the business tensions carry over into the personal and vice versa. But, you know, we always find a way through it. And I think that takes—it takes a lot of skill to find the methods and the techniques to make that happen.

Amber:
I think that one of the best kind of tools that we leaned into—and we did definitely discuss this a lot when we were going through couples therapy—but not letting things linger. I think that that is kind of one of the best things that has helped us find success in this business, is that throughout the years—the more recent years. We have gotten much better about not letting things linger, whereas before—in our marriage, not even in our marriage—even when we were just dating, I feel like a lot of the times we would have a situation or a tension and we wouldn't come forward with our feelings or our thoughts. And things would just carry over, and then there was tension in everything and every aspect and everything that we did. We were kind of both holding on to things.

And I think that running a business together has forced us to get over that, because we can't avoid each other when we need to have a business discussion. And I have a really hard time being productive and creative when our marriage or our relationship doesn’t feel stable. So I think that we’ve both really prioritized making sure that we confront each other and communicate. And I feel like we’ve both had to learn to prioritize making sure that we reconnect and stay connected and stay kind of on the same page so that we can function both within the business and our personal lives.

Shaun:
Not only can we not avoid having those conversations, but—I mean—we literally work from home together. So like, we can’t avoid each other physically either. Like, it’s not possible.

Amber:
Yeah.

Shaun:
So when we moved into this house, we started couples therapy not too long after that. So I think that those also kind of coincided in a way. We were working on things in couples therapy and finding those techniques, and also the fact that we were in this house and starting this type of work together—it forced us, in a way, to confront a lot of the issues that we had and the bad habits that we had and the way that we handled certain things. I think that—you know—it all kind of came together at the right time, and it helped strengthen the relationship. And it also, you know, gave us a better direction and a better system for working together.

Amber:
I think something else that therapy really taught us was to define our roles. I think that has been key to our lives as a whole—business and otherwise—because I own the business. I own this business. And I had always wanted to create something together with him. I kind of always imagined that I would have my own business, but like, maybe we would have our own joint business someday. I never envisioned like sharing my business, because I like to be in control. And one of the reasons that I started a business is so that I could have control. So that I could be in control of what I was doing, and what I was creating, and how I was doing things. And even to this day, I’m not really ready to split that with somebody—equally. And Shaun definitely is a vital component to making the business happen, but I’m not ready to share ownership.

And I think that—that kind of—when you really kind of dove in and started doing this with me, when you kind of, you know, put both feet in this water and were really like, “Okay, this is going to be my job for right now,” I think that we didn’t really have that defined—of what that looked like. Whether Shaun was kind of going to act like a co-owner or an employee or an independent contractor... like, we didn’t have a discussion about who was going to be in charge of what, and who was going to be deciding what.

And I think that once we finally had that conversation, it really took a lot of the tension out of it, because I was able to communicate like—I’m not, I’m not ready to approach this as an equal partnership yet. Everything else in our lives, yes. But the business—no.

Amber:
And I think that part of my hesitation is because we have tried to work together so many times in the past and it didn’t work out for one reason or another. And part of it is just, you know, me—you know, personally. Like, I have spent so many years growing this that I’m not ready to—I’m not ready to like split it down the middle.

And I think that in a lot of ways, without knowing it, I was mentally and emotionally trying to dump half of that weight on you—but like wasn’t giving you the benefits of being a co-owner. And I think that when we talked about that—like, “Okay, if Shaun isn’t going to be a co-owner, what does that look like?”—and so I really had to kind of reel in what I was asking of him.

And I think it’s really strengthened me as a business owner, because a lot of our tension before came from decision-making and me asking for advice when I didn’t really want it. And it was a matter of me not trusting myself, and I would ask you for things—but I would kind of already have my gut feeling or my mind made up. And I would be looking for kind of reassurance rather than input. And so I really needed to stop doing that.

And I needed to ask myself what questions are within the roles and responsibilities that we have given him, and what questions and what topics are appropriate for me to kind of have an open discussion about with you—and what areas of the business am I really kind of in charge of navigating myself.

Shaun:
That particular role—defining it—was a big adjustment for me, because I definitely had some resentment for a while about the way that things were being handled, and that led to tensions, you know, within the business and within the relationship. So that was a big adjustment, and it definitely took some time for me to get used to. Because I’m also a stubborn person, and you know—I like to be in control, in charge to an extent with a lot of things too. So I still, you know—I still catch myself sometimes wanting to give input about things that are not in my pay grade. So it’s still something that I’m adjusting to in a way. I think that for the most part I have adjusted to it, but it did help—even though I was resistant to it at first in a lot of ways. Because I wanted to have more say, and I wanted to have more control over a lot of things. Sometimes I think that I have better ideas than you about things, and I want to voice that. But I’ve, for the most part, settled into a place where I know when I should speak up and I know when I should keep my mouth shut.

Amber:
It just—before, the way we were doing things, it really led to a lot of head butting. Because we are both very stubborn, and...

Shaun:
Like you said, we have different views and ideas about things. You know, we are very different people in a lot of ways.

Amber:
Yeah, and I wasn’t really ready to change the approaches that I had already knew worked. I had already grown the business to a point where it was supporting me and where it was starting to support you. And I didn’t feel comfortable kind of jumping ship and making the adjustments that you were kind of suggesting—or the direction that you wanted to take things.

And that’s not to say that we’re not going to grow into a place where this is more of a 50/50 partnership. But I think that even though this has been supporting us together for almost two years, it’s still new. Like, it’s still a new business. It is still something that we have a lot of things that we’re figuring out—especially at the time where we were having those discussions about defining roles. I wasn’t confident that it was going to continue to support both of us full-time. And a lot of my hesitation came from that place of, “Well, how do I let him in and be involved in this on that level if I’m not sure that I will be able to continue paying both of us full-time in the long run?”

Shaun:
Well, you have—as we have also discussed in therapy—you have a very hard time letting go of responsibilities. So I think that that is—that's partially on you as well. Because, you know, it could have—I'm not saying that it would have happened this way—but it could have gone the other way too. Where if you would have given me more, that we could have grown more, and we could have grown faster. It’s hard to say what would have happened either way. But I get where you’re coming from. You started this without me—like this was your thing. And, you know, it just got to a point where you felt like you needed my help, and it just kind of grew from there.

I don’t blame you or hold that against you for, you know, not wanting to let go of that. Do I wish you would? Yeah. But it is what it is.

Amber:
But at the time where we were having those discussions, our marriage also wasn’t in the same place that it is now. And I think that that also was reflected in the decision I made and kind of in the desire I had to maintain control—is because we also had, you know, personal things that we were working through. And we were learning to navigate not letting a lot of our personal tensions interfere with our day-to-day activities of the business.

It’s been a very interesting journey to watch unfold, because it is a huge decision to own a business with somebody.

Shaun:
Just anybody.

Amber:
Anybody—it doesn’t even have to be a significant other. But having 50/50 control is a whole other level of challenging, because when you don’t agree, you’re kind of at a standstill.

Shaun:
This is why big companies have boards, and they have votes and all that fun stuff—because you can’t, you can’t just have 50/50 control.

Amber:
No, it’s impossible.

Shaun:
Especially—yeah.

Amber:
And so as a small business, it’s really unrealistic to do that. I think I was really worried about that too—is would we be able to move the business forward while constantly battling opposing ideas? And that’s still kind of a fear of mine, but I also feel like I have a very specific set of values that I want to continue to uphold in the business. And I feel like if I’m in control, I can execute those.

Shaun:
It is a very specific set—let me tell you.

Amber:
I want everything to be very like classy and very elegant and family-friendly and, you know, just good vibes all the time. So I think that when you have a history with somebody—especially when you are, you know—and I think in any marriage you’re continuing to work through your issues and whatever you’re going through—and I think when you have all of that and are also trying to work alongside somebody to build a business that creates financial stability—it is, it’s a huge challenge.

Shaun:
I don’t even think that it has to be something that is dealing with creating financial stability. Because, you know, I’ve been in bands most of my life. And just being friends with somebody and then being in a band—which in a way is treated like a business in a lot of ways—that has fractured so many friendships throughout my life. Because of tensions within the band that then carried over into the friendships, and then the friendships fell apart. And it’s really hard to balance working together in any capacity—even if, like the band for example, sure we wanted to have some success with it—but it was also largely just meant to be something fun that we could do. And even just, you know, making decisions in that capacity—it was really hard to balance. And like I said, it fractured relationships and friendships for so long. And you know, I'm grateful that I've been able to kind of reconnect and rebuild quite a few of those within the last few years. But it's just really hard to find that balance with anybody that you have a relationship with outside of the business.

I feel like it would be a lot easier to run a business with somebody that you're just an acquaintance with, and you know your relationship is just the business relationship. I think that that would create a lot less issues. But at the same time, like, how enjoyable is that? You know, how much fun are you actually gonna have doing something like that?

Amber:
I think you have to be so committed to making it work—even if it’s more than two people—all the parties involved have to be extremely committed to making it work through the thick and the thin.

Shaun:
I also feel like you have to set your egos aside. You know, there has to be some sort of ego death in this process, because there has to be compromise. Like you said, we've defined our roles and that, you know, you are the owner and the boss. But like, I have to set my ego aside because like I just kind of said—there are a lot of times where I want to say something, and like, I feel like I have a better idea. But, you know, I have to shut that down and set my ego aside for that.

I'm sure you probably do that too. You know, I'm sure that there are a lot of times that you want to say stuff to me. And, you know, anytime that there’s a working business relationship, you really—you have to set your ego aside and just focus on what is really right for the business and find a way to relay that information without damaging the personal relationship.

Amber:
And I think that because of the way we have shifted and defined our roles, that now it’s more intentional. So when you do speak up and you do share your idea, I know that like you’ve really thought it through, and you really do think that it is a smart move for the business. And vice versa—like, when I’m asking you for advice, when I’m asking you for your opinion, I’m really trying to make sure, like—I know what he is good at, and am I giving him an opportunity to lean into his strengths by coming to him and asking him about this? And I think that that has really helped us a lot.

Shaun:
Yeah, because I was a lot more impulsive with my reactions to things, and I would voice my opinion without really thinking it through ahead of time. And I think that the role defining and the discussions that we had in couples therapy really kind of helped me to—I’m sure I still do it sometimes—but to have it happen less and to think through more whenever I feel like I have something that I need to say.

Amber:
And that's an area that we would really butt heads on a lot—is because I do have 12+ years of experience running a business. And I have learned so much, and I have learned so many lessons, and I have failed so many times. And I really feel like this business grows when I lean into that.

Amber:
There have been a lot of, you know, mistakes that I've made where I've been like, "I've already learned that lesson. Why did I make that decision?" And so, a lot of the times, he would share an idea with me and I would say no, just because I felt like it was something similar to something I had tried before. Or I felt like I had kind of already learned that was not the best approach for the business. And then I feel like you would get frustrated that I wasn't, like, kind of considering your idea. And I think that we have both kind of grown in that aspect. I think you’re more intentional about what you share with me, and I think that I am also trying to get out of the habit of having such a narrow focus. Because even though I might have learned that lesson in the past, like, the world is a different place and the business is constantly growing and constantly evolving. And so I think that you’re really good about bringing that perspective—that kind of outside perspective—because you haven’t been so in it the way that I have. And I feel like we have balanced those two perspectives in a much stronger way than we used to before.

Amber:
That all being said—we see a lot of each other.

Shaun:
For better or for worse.

Amber:
And that is one of the pros and the cons of working with your significant other. Because you get to see a lot more of them. And before, when you had a job—and I mean, I had—I was teaching yoga—so I feel like we both worked kind of in different capacities. But I think that it was, you know, it was hard on me not seeing a lot of you. And now I see you all the time. And that has its challenges too.

Shaun:
Well, I mean, I always used to say earlier on in our relationship that, you know, I liked my alone time. I liked my space. And you didn’t understand that for the longest time.

Amber:
No, I didn't. 

Shaun:
I don’t know if you really understood it until I quit my job and started doing this full time.

Amber:
Yeah. Yes. I didn’t—I didn’t get it. Like, especially because we had not spent any time together. So you would come home from work and you would, like, need your space. And I’d be like, well, where’s the space, like, for us? You know? Because I didn’t really get to see a lot of you. And that was hard—to also, like, acknowledge the alone time that you needed and to realize that it didn’t have anything to do with me. And it was about, like, what you needed and the time that you needed to yourself in order to be able to at that point survive—and I didn't get it because I had the house to myself when you were working. And for a while it was part time, so I had at least a few hours in the morning where you weren’t there. And then you went full time, and I had even more time by myself. And I really took that for granted and what it did for me and my mental health and my creativity to be like—uninterrupted and in a house that was empty.

And then he quit his job a few years ago and was then here all the time, and I’m like, oh my gosh—I need alone time. Haha. I really miss having that time every day, or at least Monday through Friday, where I had some dedicated time that was just me at the house. And I still haven’t gotten used to not having that. I’m really glad that he’s here more. I think that, you know, it’s definitely a privilege to be able to grow and run this business together. Because even though I’m the owner, like, you are a huge part of it—and a huge part of the growth and a huge part of the success. And we really are doing this together. I couldn’t do it without you. But at the same time, it is—it’s very hard to not only have the business be in the house but to also both be in the house all the time.

Shaun:
I’ve always known in my gut and in my core that, like, I need a significant amount of space and alone time to truly be productive and creative in the ways that I’ve always wanted to be. And I would always try to verbalize that when we lived at the old house. And like I said, I don’t think you ever truly understood it.

Amber:
No.

Shaun:
And I don’t think I ever was able to get the time that I felt like I needed. And then when I quit my job, we were already in this house. So, you know, when we bought this house, we had decided that the upstairs was gonna be my area. So I at least have that escape here. But it’s still—it’s not the same.

Like, I remember I would always used to say I had my room at the old house, but like—I know somebody else is here. Like, if I’m trying to be creative, like, it’s not the same. Just knowing that somebody else is there and, like, for me, trying to sing and work on melodies—even though you don’t care and you said that you wish I would do it more—just that underlying feeling that you know somebody’s hearing you and you know they’re judging you—it takes you out of the zone.

Amber:
I’m never judging your music.

Shaun:
You’re always judging me!

Amber:
That’s not true. I am married to a musician, and there is hardly ever music being played in this house.

Shaun:
But it just—it takes you out of it. You know, it’s different. If I’m at a bandmate’s house or a friend’s house and we’re working on music, it’s different there because we’re working on it together. But if it’s you, it feels—it feels totally different, and I’m not able to get in that zone.

So that has been—like, both of us being here all the time—it’s been interesting. I honestly don’t know how I haven’t completely lost my mind with the environment that we’re in. I don’t know how I have adapted and been able to survive and keep all of this going, because it goes so against everything that feels natural to me.

Amber:
But I think it’s different now because we have a better understanding of each other’s needs. And I don’t know that they can always get fulfilled, because if you want to leave your house to give the other one alone time—like, it’s really hard to do that without spending money.

Shaun:
Yeah.

Amber:
We don’t live in an area where there’s a lot around, so there’s not really a lot of options that we can just, you know, go and do something alone without having to drive pretty far—which then it becomes an ordeal. You know, it’s really hard to just like take a 10-minute drive and keep myself occupied so that you can have some alone time. Like, it is—we don’t have a situation like that. But I feel like now, I have a much better understanding of where you’re coming from when you say you need alone time.

And I feel like now you understand that that’s a need that I have too. And even though it’s hard to make sure that that is fulfilled on both ends, I feel like just that kind of understanding and acceptance—and like, “Oh, I get it”—I feel like that has done a lot for us. Because the environment is different. And like, even when you do have those weeks where you’re upstairs more, like, I don’t take it personally anymore. I don’t feel like you’re avoiding me—I just know that you’re trying to take care of your needs. And I think that having those shifts in perspective has been helpful for us.

Shaun:
I wish that I could leave here more. I wish I felt—

Amber:
Me too.

Shaun:
You wish that I could leave here more, or wish you could leave here more?

Amber:
No, I wish that you could leave here more, because I feel like I leave a lot more than you do. And I think because the business is here and every room has business things in it, and we have to do the business tasks in different rooms depending on what we’re doing—we do step on each other’s toes a lot. Or I want to be someplace that you need to be. And we do still have discussions about how do we make this work. Because it’s definitely not an ideal environment in order to be able to grow the business and maintain our relationship. But we do it. And I think that we owe a lot of that to improving our communication.

Shaun:
Yes. I love how you’re always standing in the middle of the dining room, blocking the only path to walk through whenever you’re packing up boxes.

Amber:
But I don’t have another option—because I pack on the table. And then we have this old sofa. This antique sofa in our dining room—and all of our packing supplies sits on there. So I have to be in between the table and the sofa to be able to access the packing supplies. We just have a lot of situations like that where it's definitely not ideal.

Shaun:
And it causes a lot of frustration.

Amber:
And we don't have another option. But I think at the end of the day, we know that this is temporary. It’s absolutely not our forever home. And I think that it goes back to, you know, growing something together. Not only are we trying to grow a reselling business, but we are also trying to grow a brand and a podcast and help other resellers. And there's all these other different avenues of the business that we're currently working on so that we don't have to pack as much or be home as much.

I think that we’ve communicated our frustrations and kind of acknowledged the things about our situation that we wish we could change, and we’ve been taking steps to hopefully create some things that will facilitate a different situation for us in the future.

Amber:
I also think that running a business together has really forced us to observe our weaknesses.

Shaun:
Our weaknesses in terms of the relationship? The business? What exactly are you touching on?

Amber:
I think both. I think it has done a lot for us independently. I think it has helped our personal growth a lot, because we’ve both had to acknowledge our weaknesses and how they interfere with the business, which then kind of relates to how they interfere with our marriage in a lot of ways. Communication was definitely a big one. I feel like we’ve really had to come face to face with that. I’ve had to confront my control issues and work on letting go and giving things over to you. And even though sometimes I check in, or I turn the ring light on when you're inventorying, I feel like there are a lot of things that I have completely handed over to you.

Shaun:
Yeah, I definitely feel like over the last year or so you’ve backed off a lot on some of the things that you pretty frequently would remind me of or just mention in passing. Yeah, I’m glad for that, because that can be very annoying to hear over and over again.

Amber:
I think that we have had to grow in the ways that we accept and give criticism.

Shaun:
I’d agree with that.

Amber:
Because as a business owner, you do need to be able to give me feedback and communicate when something is off, or when you’d like something to be done differently. And for a while you really just used to let those thoughts kind of run free—and then it got to the point where you weren’t sharing any of them because of the tensions that we were kind of experiencing.

So I think it has kind of forced me to be more intentional with the feedback I’m giving. I have been more aware of how it lands—kind of waiting until I’m not frustrated about something before I give you feedback, so that I can really make sure I’m delivering it in a way that feels helpful. Because I think when you’re working with your significant other instead of like an employee, it’s very easy to just talk to them the way you’d talk to your significant other.

As opposed to when you’re talking to a colleague or an employee or an associate, you’re going to be professional and you’re going to be careful with your words most of the time. I know some people don’t—but me personally, if I’m talking to somebody in a professional environment, I am going to be careful with what I’m saying and how I’m saying it and trying to be as respectful as possible.

And I think it’s really challenged me to remember that you’re not just my husband, and to respect the role that you are playing for the business as well, and to make sure there is a level of respect and professionalism that is maintained—even though it might not be quite as much as if we were in an office.

Shaun:
I feel like this business and personal relationship dynamic, along with some couples therapy, it really changed the way that I would bring up issues I had with you. In the past, I most of the time would not bring them up at all until everything just boiled up inside of me and then it would come out very unhealthily. So, I think that this has really forced me to change the way that I approach confronting you about issues that I have—and just the way that they come out in general. It’s still a work in progress, absolutely, but I think that it has gotten a lot healthier over the last couple of years. And I feel more comfortable now bringing up issues more in the moment. It’s tough for me to try to find that balance between being really impulsive and saying something without thinking it through, and then just holding it in forever. It’s really hard for me to take that beat, to let it sink in and process it and then say it—rather than, if I take that beat, in the past I just wouldn’t say anything at all. That’s still something I’m working on and trying to get better at. But I think that, you know, having the dynamic of being your significant other—and you technically being my boss—I think that it really has helped me. I’m trying to get better at taking that beat and being more intentional about the way I say things to you and confront you about issues I might have within the business.

Amber:
I think that so much of this has taught us how to meet each other in the middle. We’ve talked about communication a lot, and I feel like for most of our relationship, you were definitely an under-communicator and I was definitely an over-communicator. And I think we both, for so long, thought that each of our individual perspectives was right or more healthy or just the way we were wired.

I think this has forced us to acknowledge—okay, this is how you are, but also, this is where we need to improve. Same for me. Like, it’s not fair for me to just say I’m going to share all my thoughts and it’ll always go well. I’ve had to learn to tone it back and accept that sometimes you do need a day or two before you can talk about something—and I’ve had to learn to accept that. I would take a day or two over two weeks any day.

So I think a lot of it has really kind of forced us to learn how to meet in the middle, and to acknowledge the people that we are, but also encourage growth and change too.

Amber:
On that note of communication, I think something that has carried us through—something that’s been so important in every single time that we’ve tried to work together—is that we are constantly having conversations about what’s working and what’s not. All the time. We are always checking in and sitting down and being like, okay, this is the current problem on the table. What do we need to change so that we can solve this? But also, what is going well that we don’t want to adjust or tweak?

If you’ve followed our business for a while, you know that we don’t always do things the same way and that we do often make adjustments. On one hand, I know that can cause some confusion from a customer perspective, but I think that it has helped us in the long run because we aren’t afraid to make adjustments in order to make sure things are growing and staying stable.

Shaun:
I also think that we’re not too afraid to step out of our comfort zone when it comes to that stuff. I mean, we just stopped Instagram Live sales. We just discussed that in a podcast a couple weeks ago—that was our biggest stream of income. So I think we’re really good at having those conversations and discussions about what is and isn’t working, and while we’re having them, we’re not afraid to try different things. And like I said, step out of our comfort zone and really experiment with different ways that we can try to expand and grow and improve the business overall. I think those conversations are essential. You can find something that works—and that’s great—but everything is always changing. If you find something that works for a little while, eventually it’s going to stop working.

Amber:
We’ve learned that.

Shaun:
Yeah. Time and time again. You always have to be looking at other ways that you can grow, and other ways that you can reach more people—or whatever it is. You always have to be looking for what’s next. As unenjoyable as that sounds, you really can never be content otherwise you're going to fail. 

Amber:
You can’t get too comfortable.

Shaun:
No.

Amber:
And I also think that we’ve made space for personal concerns to come up in those conversations too. Because even though we have our business lives and our personal lives, it’s all connected. It’s all intertwined. And I think we’ve gotten really good at being like, okay, this is what is stressing me out right now, or this is on my plate and it feels like too much—how can I help you, how can you help me? 

And making sure that we’re focusing on adjusting the things that are making us feel stressed and overwhelmed. I think that’s a really helpful thing, to be able to bring our needs into those business conversations. I wouldn’t say that the business fully supports our needs right now, but I do feel like every time we make a change, every time we come up with a new strategy or an adjustment, we are constantly trying to find ways for the business to serve us better and to be a little bit less stressful. So that we can continue to show up for our clients and our customers and deliver the best experience we possibly can.

Shaun:
And also, our personal needs and our business needs are not always entirely independent. There’s a lot of overlap with them a lot of the time. So, I think that it's been necessary that we get better at vocalizing those needs and communicating those needs because they are intertwined in a lot of ways.

Yeah. I mean, it might seem obvious, but because we don’t have jobs—this is our job—we don’t have other jobs outside of this business. Our personal financial needs and our business financial needs are very intertwined. If the business isn’t doing well and it’s not making money, then personally we’re not doing very well and we’re stressed about finances and paying our bills and all of the fun stuff that comes along with that. So I know that it seems like a really obvious one, but if we don't have good communication about what our financial needs are and how the finances of the business are looking, then there's a lot of unnecessary stress that can weigh on us—both on the business side and personally.

Amber:
That's really something that I had to get over, because for a while, I almost felt ashamed to tell you that the business was slowing down or that I couldn’t pay you as many hours for that week, or something like that. And I really—that was one thing I needed to learn to let go of control on, because I can only do so much. There were a lot of times in the past where I had prioritized paying your paycheck over paying myself. And I've learned that because our personal lives and the business are so connected, it is really important for me to be honest and upfront about those things. One, to make sure that I am always paying us at least the same amount—because Shaun has more of an employee-type role. And he will never just be an employee—he is truly so much more than that—but when I pay him, I always make sure I'm paying myself at least that much. My financial needs need to be met too.

But I’ve also learned that it’s better to be open and upfront about those things so that you can kind of brace yourself if things are slowing down or so that we can initiate a discussion about what we need to change. And I really did feel bad before when I had to be like, “It’s going to be a slower week. You can only work X amount of hours.” It’s definitely something that I’ve had to work on and adjust within myself, to be able to have open communication about topics like that—especially money. Because I feel like money has been such a stressful part of my whole life, and it's been such a stressful part of our relationship and our marriage. I think being more open about money and communicating about it more has definitely helped us in terms of both the business and our personal relationship.

Shaun:
Money’s always been a very stressful topic for me too, you know—outside of our relationship, before I met you. So yeah, I would much rather have clear communication about that than be left in the dark and then surprised—“We didn’t make enough this week, sorry.”

Amber:
And we are constantly communicating about that. Like, “Okay, here’s kind of what you can do this week.” I pay him hourly just because that’s the easiest way for us to track what seems like fair payment. That just seems to be what works for us. And we’re constantly communicating about how many hours you can do this week based on the workload and our sales.

Shaun:
But there’s also a lot of unpaid tasks that I do too. There are only certain tasks that we’ve established are paid tasks. So it’s not like, if you tell me I can only work X amount of hours, then I’m not doing anything for the business. There’s still stuff that needs to be done.

Amber:
Yeah, and I have a lot of guilt around that too. Because, you know, as an owner it’s just kind of expected that I’m going to work more than I can pay myself for. That’s just kind of how owning a business goes. But because we haven’t given you that co-owner title, sometimes I do have a lot of guilt around all of the tasks that you do that I’m not paying you for. And I wish I could pay you for all of them. I wish that I could pay you for everything, but then I also know that’s not realistic. So that’s kind of another area where we’ve had to find balance and communication too. This podcast is all totally unpaid, just so you're all aware.

Shaun:
Yes, I am producing the podcast completely unpaid.

Amber:
So please watch it. Please leave your comments and your reviews, because one of the reasons we started this podcast is because I do control a lot, okay? And we are at a point where I do want him to have control over something. I don’t necessarily want it to be a whole half of the business, but I trust you. And I also want to lean more into your strengths and the things that I know you can do and enjoy doing. You’ve always produced music throughout your whole life, and we thought that a podcast would be a very natural step from what we were already doing—and would allow him to really tap into some of the things that he’s really good at. 

So we’re hoping that we can kind of grow this to a point where it does become more of a revenue stream, and it can be something that you take more ownership of, and it can be something that you grew and that you have control over. We have always kind of been looking for ways for us to find—find balance.

Shaun:
It’s not easy.

Amber:
No. It's not easy. But how do you feel like, since we have started the podcast and you do have a project that is more yours?

Shaun:
I don't mind, you know, the work that I have to do for the podcast. And I don't even mind that it's not paid. It is much more in line with stuff that I enjoy doing than, you know, just monotonously wrapping items. Things like that—you know, that's fine, but it's very monotonous, and it just feels like busy work to me. And I can't necessarily say that I enjoy that. So this is much more in line with things that I do enjoy doing.

Have I been thrilled about the success and the views that we've had on the podcast so far? No. It's a little bit discouraging. 

Amber:
A little bit...

Shaun:
I was very excited after the first two. I thought things were on a good trajectory, but it has definitely fallen off since then. But we discussed this last week—that we really haven't promoted it much. So a lot of it is definitely on our shoulders. And that's something we need to discuss and come up with a strategy for—how we can promote the podcast better and get more people watching it. Or just listening—it doesn't have to be watching—just consuming it in any form.

So yeah, a lot of that's on us. And I have to keep reminding myself of that so I don't get too discouraged about it—that we really haven't been strategic about the promotion of this podcast. Until we give that a shot, I can't get too down about it because we have to give it a real chance first.

Amber:
Yeah, I think that if it is something that allows you to tap into your skills and what you enjoy doing, I do feel like we owe it a solid run. Like, we gotta keep going, even though we're definitely feeling a little bit burnt out. But we have to—we gotta keep going, because I feel like it could provide a really good kind of balance to the business and our workloads and the tasks and roles that we both do on a regular basis.

Shaun:
I still feel like it has so much potential. I really do. I've thought that from the beginning, since before we even started it. I watch a lot more podcasts than you do, and I think that we’re in a unique situation with ours. I don't feel like there are a lot of podcasts in the market that we're trying to fill. So I think we have a lot of opportunity there, and I still do have excitement around it. I don't mind the work, but it is a lot of work. And when you put so much time into something and you put it out there and you basically hear crickets, it's very discouraging. We just—we need to promote it better and see what happens, because I still believe in it.

Amber:
I do too. And I can still see, like, when you talk about it like that, I can still see kind of that spark in your eye and the potential that you see. And I do think that we really have to give it a shot. We gotta give it what it deserves, because I think we are onto something. And like you said, we are in a unique space—which I also think comes with a lot of responsibility to get people listening to podcasts. Because I don’t feel like this is an area where people are actively looking for podcasts for. So I think that not only do we have to get it out there, but we also need to teach our community—and the vintage reselling and vintage collecting space—like, “Hey, this is something cool that you can listen to.” Because I don't think that our target market is actively looking for podcasts to put on.

Shaun:
Well that's also kind of why we're doing this podcast right now. It's because we had the discussion about, you know, maybe we should try some topics that are a little more broad—that aren't as niche and can maybe attract a different audience. So, full disclosure, that's partially why we decided on this topic. It's still relevant to the business and what we do, but we thought that this could maybe be more relatable to more people rather than just the really specific niche audience that we are targeting with the vintage reselling market.

Amber:
Yeah, and it came out of one of those conversations where we were like, “Okay, this feels like it’s not working. What is working and what’s not working about it?” And that’s how we kind of landed here.

So if you are working with your significant other, I cannot recommend this enough. If there is one tip or trick that I can leave you with, it is to have regular discussions—regular check-ins—about what is working, what’s not. And not just in terms of what’s working for the business and what’s not, but also what tasks and responsibilities are working for you and what’s not working. Because I think that is something that we’ve consistently leaned into from the beginning. I’ve always known that I couldn’t necessarily pay you the equivalent of what I need to be paying you for the work and the time that you're putting in. And so it’s always been important to me that you are doing things that you don’t hate. Like I know packing isn’t fun, and so I don’t expect you to love that. But I do want to make sure that I am having you work on things that you don’t mind doing.

Amber:
And so I think that being able to have those discussions about what feels good and what doesn’t feel good about what you’re currently working on—and making sure that we’re constantly stepping in the direction of trying to make this a more enjoyable experience for you—has been important.

Shaun:
We’re getting there. Haha.

Amber:
I mean, but that is—you know—that's also part of owning a business means there are so many steps in between that aren’t enjoyable.

Shaun:
Like we said, I’m not an owner of this business, but I still treat it like I am.

Amber:
In a lot of ways. Yeah.

Shaun:
So I’ve realized that running a business—it never stops. It is never-ending. And unless you're like a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company, I don’t know that you ever can truly get paid enough for the amount of time that you put into it. Because it is an all-day thing.

Amber: 
And I feel like that’s another good thing that has come out of this. Because I have owned a business the whole time you’ve known me. I have always been working independently. I’ve had a couple—like a handful—of part-time jobs here and there, but the majority of my work and my time and my income has always come from owning my own business. There have been a lot of different ones, which we can talk about another day, but it’s always come from owning my own business. So I’ve been a business owner for over 12 years. And I feel like since you have been more involved with this one, I do feel like you understand me more than you did before. I feel like you understand where I’m coming from and kind of that habit of working a lot and why that motivation and drive and that kind of hustle is necessary in a lot of different ways. I do feel like that has helped us a lot—that you kind of get me more than you used to.

Shaun:
Yeah. I definitely don’t think that I appreciated how much time you put into stuff in the past. I’ve always wanted to be an entrepreneur, and that’s always been a goal of mine—to be independent and not have to work for a company or anything like that. But I don’t know... I don’t know that I fully understood what all needed to be done. Even though I should have, because when I was really dedicated to music and bands, like that was my life. And I put everything that I had into it. You know, I should have understood that better earlier, but I don’t think I really did until we started doing this together.

Amber:
So even though there is a lot of stress and a lot of challenge that comes with this, I do think that it has been really beneficial for us—both personally and as a couple—to do this together and be in this business together. And I think that it has way more benefits and way more pros and way more potential than if we were doing our own things independently and not working together in this manner. In the grand scheme of everything, this really is just the beginning.

Shaun:
It’s only been a couple years that we’ve really both been doing this full time together and really giving it a true shot. And we have changed so much over the last couple months, and we have added so many new things into what we’re trying to do. It really does feel like, you know, it’s just a little infant right now. It’s brand new basically, because it feels almost like an entirely different business with everything that we’ve tried lately.

Amber:
I know there have been a lot of changes and a lot of adjustments, but I also feel like so much of that has come from communicating and figuring out what we need, and the life we want to create. Working so hard on ourselves, I think, has really led us to a point where we’re like, okay—now we can see not just that we want to create a business, but we want to create a life together. And the type of life that we want to create, and the road to how we could do that, is much more clear than it’s been in the past.

Shaun:
It is much more clear. But it also feels really overwhelming taking those first steps.

Amber:
Yeah. The biggest thing that we’re struggling with right now—one of the biggest things—is that now we can see that road. We’re like, okay, if we just did A, B, C, and D, I really think that we could create what we’ve always wanted to create. But finding the time to implement all of those steps while still trying to maintain the level of success and income that we have had is a big challenge. Because we’ve talked about this in other episodes, but there is only so much you can scale a reselling business. And in today’s world, it would be enough to continue to pay our bills, but it’s not going to be enough to allow us to live the way that we would like to or to even have less financial stress. And also, like—we’ve talked about this before too—but we’re trying to start a family, and that’s been a journey. And we want to be able to maybe invest some money into that. So we have to figure out how to take this to the next level. And we have to be able to create a business that doesn’t feel so stressful all the time. And I feel like we have a much better idea of how to do that now.

Shaun:
Yeah, like I said, the idea is there. The vision is there. It’s just executing it—that’s the hard part right now. Executing it physically and also supporting us and the vision financially. Because, you know, that’s another—we could probably have a whole separate episode about this. But this is it. This is our income. It's this business. We don’t have other jobs that supplement this. It's this. It's all or nothing. So, you know, we don't—we don't have the extra money to put into things. So it's like growing and scaling the business and trying to stabilize it financially all at the same time. It is a very interesting dynamic that we're trying to juggle right now.

Amber:
Especially when everything keeps getting more expensive.

Shaun:
Yeah.

Amber:
It's hard sometimes because we feel like we can't—we can't get ahead. Because every time we get ahead a little bit, life is more expensive. Which is really kind of throwing us for a loop right now and definitely taking a toll on our motivation and our resilience. But we keep powering through. And I think that's another benefit of working with your significant other—is that we really are in this together. And we don't have a choice.

So we wanna hear from you. If you work with your significant other, what do you love about it? What do you not love? If you are thinking about working with your significant other—let us know. 

Shaun:
Just don’t do it.

Amber:
You wanna go back to having a job? By all means. I'll take my alone time back.No, I’m just kidding.

Shaun:
I'm just kidding too. No, I do think that it is more beneficial than not. I mean, you—you have to work at it. It’s not easy. It’s not something that maybe—I'm sure there are some couples out there that, you know, it might just happen naturally, but that was not the case with us.

Amber:
Yeah. Yeah.

Shaun:
It takes work. It takes a lot of understanding and communication between each other. But, you know, if you can find that balance, I do—I do think it's worth it.

Amber:
Yeah. A lot of commitment. Like a lot of commitment to showing up. A lot of commitment to working things out, to resolving conflicts and problems, and just kind of being—being committed to the long vision. But I think that if you can trust yourself and your partner to do that, then it can be a really, really great thing. Let us know what you think about this episode. Leave us some comments so that we can chat with you.

Shaun:
Yeah. Let us know if you do work with your significant other, and how you—how you manage that.

Amber:
How it's going? Maybe we need to start a support group. That's all we have for this one. So let's go find some vintage.